What’s the Purpose of Life?

[tfindlayKeymaster]

If there is no God or Heaven and we all die in the end what’s the point of anything we do?

[paulolcParticipant]

Hi,

To that question, I would like to share with you one incredible answer I’ve found, by Steven Pinker, a well known and highly regarded experimental psychologist and a popular writer on language, mind and human nature, in one of his books that I strongly recommend “Enlightenment Now. The case for Reason, Science, Humanism and Progress.

In the beginning of the book, Steven Pinker answers one similar question, posed by one of his students “Why should I live?”. It’s not exactly the question of this topic, but I think it is the same question, considering the Purpose of Life the same as the “Why” of living, the “Why” of Life without any god nor heaven.

Right there, on the second page, even before we get started on the book, this incredible gem of inspiring wisdom and insight is dropped upon us:

“Why should I live?”

“In the very act of asking that question, you are seeking reasons for your convictions, and so you are committed to reason as the means to discover and justify what is important to you. And there are so many reasons to live!

As a sentient being, you have the potential to flourish.

You can refine your faculty of reason itself by learning and debating. You can seek explanations of the natural world through science, and insight into the human condition through the arts and humanities. You can make the most of your capacity for pleasure and satisfaction, which allowed your ancestors to thrive and thereby allowed you to exist. You can appreciate the beauty and richness of the natural and cultural world. As the heir to billions of years of life perpetuating itself, you can perpetuate life in turn. You have been endowed with a sense of sympathy-the ability to like, love, respect, help, and show kindness and you can enjoy the gift of mutual benevolence with friends, family, and colleagues. And because reason tells you that none of this is particular to you, you have the responsibility to provide to others what you expect for yourself. You can foster the welfare of other sentient beings by enhancing life, health, knowledge, freedom, abundance, safety, beauty, and peace.
History shows that when we sympathize with others and apply our ingenuity to improving the human condition, we can make progress in doing so, and you can help to continue that progress.”

 

• This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by paulolc. Reason: Incomplete sentence

[tfindlayKeymaster]

Thanks for your response. I am a long time admirer of Stephen Pinker and the quotation from Enlightenment Now is a typical example of his brilliance.

Pinker says there are so many reasons to live. As a religious naturalist the mystery and wonder of nature provides one such reason. There is so much to be astonished by and to appreciate in nature.

[wheelerrjParticipant]

History indicates a purpose for life. Here is my view that is posted on my webpage ontosscience.com.

The Purpose & Value of Life   by Robert Wheeler

Science cannot answer the question about the value or purpose of life, but studies of history (particularly paleontology and anthropology) show a pattern or thread indicating the answer is to further develop complexity of nature which now involves development of human consciousness and survival capability. This is compatible with the belief built into most religions about a goal of transcending current physical existence for some form of deification. Another approach is the view of a universal type of consciousness of which individual human consciousnesses are aspects thereof. Both develop together as proposed by Panentheism and Process Theology. The “omega point” proposed by Teilhard de Chardin is the time when we have developed a personal consciousness that melds with the universal consciousness. Eastern ideologies also support this approach with concepts such as Reincarnation, Nirvana, and Moksha.

Science predicts that humans as a species have only about a billion years to pursue this development before the sun’s ultimate global warming destroys life as we know it. The human organism has evolved tremendous abilities during its known history of about 2.5 million years and if nuclear war, overpopulation or some other mishap does not occur in the next billion years, it could fulfill the positive religious predictions if public society adopts the long-range goal of developing complexity and sophistication of human nature and consciousness so that a form of life emerges that survives material destruction on earth. Just pursuing this goal would alleviate most of today’s problems.

 

[vandermudeParticipant]

Re: The Purpose & Value of Life   by Robert Wheeler

A nit-picking point:

“Science predicts that humans as a species have only about a billion years to pursue this development before the sun’s ultimate global warming destroys life as we know it.”

This statement presumes that humans will never live anywhere but near the sun. As an avid reader of science fiction since the 1960s, there are lots of plausible scenarios where humans spread out beyond the Solar System. Some of these scenarios are almost within reach of current technology.

You may be implying this in your second paragraph, but I’m not sure.

Tony Van der Mude

[paulolcParticipant]

I cannot quote Carl Sagan enough 😉

“The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life’s meaning. We long for a Parent to care for us, to forgive us our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes. But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable.

If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.”

― Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space

[vandermudeParticipant]

I read this over a couple of times. Although I love Carl Sagan also, I can’t make heads nor tails of this. Can you explain it for me, so my simple mind can comprehend it? Thanks.

[tfindlayKeymaster]

I think he is saying that it is up to us to decide what the purpose of human life should be (“determined only by our own wisdom and courage”). The purpose of human life is not something that exists waiting to be discovered but something to be chosen with wisdom and courage.

[wheelerrjParticipant]

Yes, we seem to crave a cosmic purpose, a great care giver and benevolent authority. It’s built into us. It fits in with our proximate purpose to exist & reproduce; but, to do that we need knowledge & explanation. For our ancient ancestors life was tough and they had to think a lot about this resulting supernatural beliefs, many of which still dominate society with religious dogma. We need to rethink these dogmas so that our beliefs are more believable and a cosmic purpose more sensible.

[wheelerrjParticipant]

RN is a good approach to achieving more sensible beliefs.

[wheelerrjParticipant]

Yes, but history indicates that there is a purpose in life. It is to increase in complexity and sophistication. That’s what has been happening. The big question is the goal. All Religions and ideologies have suppositions, most of which conflict with research findings and modern experiences..

[tfindlayKeymaster]

Purpose, to me, involves intention. I don’t think that life intends to increase in complexity or sophistication. If I have a goal to lose weight it is a goal I have decided on. Life doesn’t decide to do anything. It evolves according to the laws of physics and chemistry. Likewise, life does not have a goal that it is attempting to achieve. It doesn’t have any intention to achieve anything. There is a tendency for evolution to move in the direction of increased complexity but this is due to the laws of nature not some pre-determined goal. Who or what would determine the goal?

• This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by tfindlay.

[UrsulaParticipant]

Living beings, I would say, DO have goals that they seek to achieve: they seek to self-maintain, self-repair, and self-protect to keep themselves from falling apart. The advent of life marks the advent of telos. I agree that there’s no non-theistic reason to think that these goals are pre-determined, but they’re essential.

These conversations can get muddled in that the word purpose has two connotations; it can also indicate meaning — what is the meaning of life, as in the first question in this thread.

[tfindlayKeymaster]

I agree that living beings do have goals but these are emergent and, in my mind, not pre-determined or intended. There was nothing that intended this to happen. These emergent properties were selected because they supported the survival of some organisms. With the emergence of these goals the element of intention was introduced into the world. Intention, in the way I use the word, is a property of living things resulting from the fact that they seek to survive. This kind of intention need not be a conscious phenomenon. Living things “choose” to do what is necessary to survive. Entities that don’t do this don’t exist for long.

Returning to the question of purpose, I maintain that a purpose or goal is an intended outcome. In the case of life’s movement toward increased complexity it is not a purpose or goal but a direction in evolution resulting from organisms adapting to be able to survive in ever-widening ranges of situations. In terms of survival complexity means being able to survive in a wide range of circumstances from Arctic cold to Equatorial heat, from high mountain terrain to broad grassy plains, from diets of meat to diets of fruit and vegetables. and so on. Complexity itself was never a goal or purpose of evolution. It is a result of the natural selection of adaptations that are favourable to survival in ever-changing environmental conditions

[wheelerrjParticipant]

OK, I agree that it is quite possible that our sophistication is only the result of adapting to and furtherance of existence. However; my work in psychology indicates that thinking humans want more than just adapting to immediate struggles for existence. An imperative seems to be built into us to want knowledge of the cause/s of it all. There seems to be a mystical mysterious intention that caused the pattern of developing complexity and self-organization of nature. Those people that have a sense of purpose beyond personal existence have most health, well-being, & performance.

[paulolcParticipant]

Could it be that the imperative you describe, that mystical mysterious intention, be related to the beautiful incandescent sunsets, the songs of birds, the aroma of flowers, the taste of chocolate, the feeling of a warm embrace, the laughter of children, the awe-inspiring majesty of the cosmos, the things that give life meaning? The information distilled over four billion years of biological evolution and natural selection.

So, you’ve worked in psychology and you have observed that “thinking humans want more than just adapting to immediate struggles for existence”. You bet! Nothing about us is immediate. We don’t want to just survive. We want to thrive! To live a life full of purpose, meaning , direction and full of worthy goals and realization! Oh so true!

Now, what would you think it would a species require to completely dominate a planet and who knows, the universe? The strength of a bear? The height of a giraffe? The speed of a cheetah? No, right? It’s all about this Meaning giving mean machine we have between our ears. A brain capable of projecting the future, allowing us to tell stories, collaborate in large numbers providing layers upon layers of meaning and purpose. Sometimes, even when there’s none. Remember the clouds, the constellations, gods, folk stories, myths. We have this compulsion to connect the dots. Maybe they’re just dots and we do with them whatever we want.

[tfindlayKeymaster]

There seems to be a mystical mysterious intention that caused the pattern of developing complexity and self-organization of nature.

Rather than “intention” I prefer to use the Neo-Confusion idea of an “organizing principle”. They refer to this principle as “li” and call that which it organizes “qi”. Jeremy Lent discusses this in both of his books “The Patterning Instinct” and “The Web of Meaning”.

To me, “organizing principle” is no less mysterious than “mysterious intention” but it is less anthropomorphic. It doesn’t imply an intelligence or consciousness having a will or intention. It still leaves the heart of existence a wondrous mystery.

[wheelerrjParticipant]

The major appeal that Religious Naturalism has for me is respect for nature and its’ unknown aspects. The farther science can look the more is seen. It now seems that at the most fundamental level the basic constituents are fuzzy things like forces, fields, functions, information, consciousness, etc. The boundaries of nature are obscure. Science and history indicates that they have continually expanded showing a pattern of increasing complexity. Life emerged with the purpose of existing and reproducing. Humans emerged with the purpose of facilitating existence and reproduction. Doing this requires knowledge about “cause & effect,” producing purpose & goal and pursuing produces meaning. For our ancient ancestors, life was tough and they formulated explanations and beliefs, some of which continue today but conflict with new information and experiences. So, the importance of all this is that human life today is quite vulnerable and we need to rethink dogmatic beliefs so that they are more believable and activities are more meaningful. Cooperation, helpfulness,& contribution would replace competition, aggression, & taking.

[paulolcParticipant]

Yes and let’s go even further and abolish dogmatic beliefs altogether. The respect for science as the best way of understanding (based on evidence) leaves no room for unquestionable facts.

(PS: Wouldn’t “drive” be a better word than “purpose” in this context?)

 

[wheelerrjParticipant]

Great comments. You’re describing emotions that are powerful. A colorful sunset, an imposing cathedral, beautiful stain glass windows, inspiring music–if a person is open to it, awe results. This is a vacuous feeling that there is something “more.” But what? There must be some reason or purpose. If it is only random evolution , we need to better develop management as humanists and existentialists advocate. If there is a cause with purpose, we need to do a better job of cooperating. I think this is more than just a drive.

[paulolcParticipant]

Thank you! Oh, I can totally relate to the feeling you are describing. The “There must be something!” . Some years ago I would get totally sucked and fully absorbed into a momentarily self inflicted state of euphoria of such absolute awe and admiration of the most simple things you could imagine, that I would start crying. Some of them I already told you but one of them was especially effective. The rustling of leaves in the pine trees high branches. It would immediately got me transported back to when I was a kid walking alone through the pine tree forest around by grandparents house, a very common landscape in Portugal’s countryside. I have a vivid memory of experiencing that incredible sensation as a kid, when the refreshing summer breeze brushed against my face, as I gazed upwards and allowed myself to be dazzled by the glaring sunlight beams flashing through the rustling leaves.
It was (is) a very powerful feeling for me. For many years, I would be filled with a strong desire to find someone or something to express gratitude towards for such an incredible emotion.

Then it hit me. Maybe it is not the Universe that is so beautiful that must have been created by a powerful and master architect of Splendor. It is Us that are adapted and optimized to find the universe beautiful and feel so connected to Nature. That’s what I mean about the information distilled over four billion years of biological evolution and natural selection. Consider this: if our ancestors possessed the inclination to find the Universe unappealing, they may not have been as driven to flourish and endure.

[tfindlayKeymaster]

Then it hit me. Maybe it is not the Universe that is so beautiful that must have been created by a powerful and master architect of Splendor. It is Us that are adapted and optimized to find the universe beautiful and feel so connected to Nature.

From this we could say that wonder and awe evolved because they support the survival of beings who experiencer them.  Dacher Keltner looks at this idea in “Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life”.

[vandermudeParticipant]

“Then it hit me. Maybe it is not the Universe that is so beautiful that must have been created by a powerful and master architect of Splendor. It is Us that are adapted and optimized to find the universe beautiful and feel so connected to Nature.”

That is quite an insight! Thank you. I have never heard it expressed that way, but this makes sense.

[Todd MacalisterKeymaster]

After spending a lot of time in early-adulthood considering questions of purpose and meaning (in part prompted by existentialist literature in college, and religion/philosophy classes that looked head-on at (as one professor pronounced), the “mean-ing-LESS-NESS” of life”, I eventually came ‘round to, and have ever since been comfortable with the view, that . . .

there is no “purpose” (which would have required a God or “something”, with intention, to have set one).

This all “just is” – due (as best I’m able to understand it) to the inherent nature of energy; where, following the Big Bang, some types of energy had ability to take form as nuclear particles, which – under particular circumstances – were able to combine and take form as atoms, which, on Earth, can take form as molecules, which can combine in ways that result in life (and then evolve to human beings, and each of us, ourselves, etc.)

It’s not possible to see a “why” in this.

Questions trace back to the unanswerable “Why is there something rather than nothing?” and “Why are natural processes, laws and forces as they are?”

It’s a mystery.

They just are.
And, due to this, here we are.

But, given that we are, and since it’s far preferable to be healthy, happy, and thrive, rather than to suffer, we do what we can to survive and thrive.

And, as we evolved as we did due to instincts/tendencies that enable social groups to thrive, part of what lets us thrive as individuals is relating closely to some other people and some other types of living things, and acting in ways that enable them, also, to thrive and survive.

This isn’t a “cosmic” purpose.

But can be seen as a personal and social purpose.

And, for all that I’ve been able to see, it may be all that we’re able to find, which can be fine, because this can be life-long satisfying, and enough.

And, as part of this it can include a sense of wonder and appreciation, and a sense of connection and belonging – in being – even if for a tiny, tiny, amount of time, a part of, and one expression of what is and will continue to be, billions of amazing and interconnected expressions of this order and power; where, due to reasons we will never be able to more than partially understand,

something in the nature of energy
contains the potential
to take form in ways
that result in life.

And, after receiving this gift, we may as well use it as best we can.

Todd

[Todd MacalisterKeymaster]

After spending a lot of time in early-adulthood considering questions of purpose and meaning (in part prompted by existentialist literature in college, and religion/philosophy classes that looked head-on at (as one professor pronounced), the “mean-ing-LESS-NESS” of life”, I eventually came ‘round to, and have ever since been comfortable with the view, that . . .

there is no “purpose” (which would have required a God or “something”, with intention, to have set one).

This all “just is” – due (as best I’m able to understand it) to the inherent nature of energy; where, following the Big Bang, some types of energy had ability to take form as nuclear particles, which – under particular circumstances – were able to combine and take form as atoms, which, on Earth, can take form as molecules, which can combine in ways that result in life (and then evolve to human beings, and each of us, ourselves, etc.)

It’s not possible to see a “why” in this.

Questions trace back to the unanswerable “Why is there something rather than nothing?” and “Why are natural processes, laws and forces as they are?”

It’s a mystery.

They just are.
And, due to this, here we are.

But, given that we are, and since it’s far preferable to be healthy, happy, and thrive, rather than to suffer, we do what we can to survive and thrive.

And, as we evolved as we did due to instincts/tendencies that enable social groups to thrive, part of what lets us thrive as individuals is relating closely to some other people and some other types of living things, and acting in ways that enable them, also, to thrive and survive.

This isn’t a “cosmic” purpose.

But can be seen as a personal and social purpose.

And, for all that I’ve been able to see, it may be all that we’re able to find, which can be fine, because this can be life-long satisfying, and enough.

And, as part of this it can include a sense of wonder and appreciation, and a sense of connection and belonging – in being – even if for a tiny, tiny, amount of time, a part of, and one expression of what is and will continue to be, billions of amazing and interconnected expressions of this order and power; where, due to reasons we will never be able to more than partially understand,

something in the nature of energy
contains the potential
to take form in ways
that result in life.

And, after receiving this gift, we may as well use it as best we can.

Todd

[Jackgreene39Participant]

The key concept of Religious Naturalism that has had the most impact on me is the understanding of our deep interconnectedness. In this context, my purpose feels obvious. In the same way that the microorganisms in my body have a purpose to keep me alive and healthy, I have a purpose to help those in my community and family flourish. In a global sense, our collective purpose seems straight-forward, prevent the extinction of the human race.

All living beings are born able to perform the most vital instinct to their survival. Giraffes come out of the womb able to run for their lives. We are born crying for help. We tend to think of purpose in individualistic terms, but we are so clearly reliant on other living beings for everything we do. Our purpose has to extend to those who allow us to thrive, or they will die out, and so will we.

[wheelerrjParticipant]

Well said, and I agree. I take it one step further in thinking that seems to be the purpose in life: to grow and develop in complexity and sophistication both individually and collectively. We don’t know what the goal is, but if a critical mass of people were overtly pursuing it, most of the world’s problems would be alleviated.

 

 

[wheelerrjParticipant]

Opps–I think this is the purpose in nature. Life and we humans are the result of that process.

[UrsulaParticipant]

IMO you got it right the first time. Lift marks the advent of purpose.

 

[paulolcParticipant]

Sorry Ursula, I was not able to understand your answer (I’m a not a very good English reader).  Since I didn’t want to bother you to explain it, I took my chance and asked ChatGPT. It answered:

“Lift marks the advent of purpose” could suggest that the act of lifting, whether literal or metaphorical, is considered a significant event that signifies the beginning or emergence of purpose in some way. It could imply that through lifting or elevating oneself or others, a sense of purpose becomes apparent or is realized.”

This makes sense to me. Is this what you meant?

(I find uncanny the use of the word “emergence”…)

Here’s the prompt and the full ChatGPT’s answer:

Prompt

What does it mean that “Lift marks the advent of purpose.”

ChatGPT
 
The phrase “Lift marks the advent of purpose” seems to imply that the concept or action of “lift” signifies the beginning or arrival of purpose. However, without further context or information about the specific context in which this phrase is used, it is difficult to provide a definitive interpretation.

In general, the term “lift” can have various meanings depending on the context. It could refer to physical elevation or raising something, as in lifting an object. Metaphorically, “lift” can also denote an emotional or mental uplift, a sense of improvement or inspiration. Purpose, on the other hand, typically refers to having a specific reason or goal, a sense of direction or intention in one’s actions or existence.

Combining these ideas, “Lift marks the advent of purpose” could suggest that the act of lifting, whether literal or metaphorical, is considered a significant event that signifies the beginning or emergence of purpose in some way. It could imply that through lifting or elevating oneself or others, a sense of purpose becomes apparent or is realized. However, the interpretation can vary depending on the specific context and intended meaning of the phrase.

• This reply was modified 5 months ago by paulolc. Reason: removed unintended tags

[tfindlayKeymaster]

It was a typo I think. It should have been “life” not “lift”. Life marks the advent of purpose.

[vandermudeParticipant]

Of course! Thank you, Terry. It was obviously a typo, but I could not figure out what the error was. Once you pointed this out, the error was obvious.

[Author]

Posts